Hi.
I have an unusual situation which might be a bit more typical for those who've experienced BPD. I really need help repairing a relationship if it's even possible.
I have had an on-again, off-again relationship with a woman who my therapist believes suffers from borderline personality disorder. She mostly fits the description of the "obsessive-compulsive borderline" in Joan Lachkar's book, "The Narcissistic/Borderline Couple." My therapist believes that I suffer from a mild case of narcissistic personality disorder. In the same book, I fit the profile of the "depressive narcissist," not the types of narcissists that most of us think about who don't care at all about others, etc. (One web site I've found describes my type as suffering from "compensatory narcissistic personality disorder," as separate from NPD.)
After almost getting married last summer (which I broke off a month before the wedding, but only days after agreeing to it), we had a rather undefined relationship for about six months. She continued to pursue me and want me as her boyfriend (and husband), but I was non-committal. It was always, "Well, we'll see." We live in different cities, and I refused to visit her during that period. We continued to talk on the phone for at least an hour a day, mostly more. We talked about our possible future together, but she was the one who pushed it more heavily. She was constantly telling me how much she loved me and wanted me, and the tone and content of our conversation was "boyfriend/girlfriend" in every way other than my stubborn refusal to call it that. I kept thinking that everything would eventually feel right to me and that we would then be on our way to getting married. (I even bought a ring for her last fall, without her knowing it.) She used to tell me constantly that if I would just show up and ask, she would marry me immediately.
About two months ago, she sent me e-mail suddenly and without warning to say that she no longer wanted to marry me -- and that she had fallen in love with someone else. Up until the day before, she was still telling me how much she loved me. I was devastated. I immediately realized that I had no one to blame but myself, of course, but I didn't understand WHY I had let this situation develop. Within about 36 hours of her e-mail telling me that it was over, I wrote a long letter telling her that I had been completely wrong -- and I that I was now ready to commit to her immediately. I was willing to marry her immediately if that's what she wanted. I just didn't want to lose her, because I loved her and felt a connection to her unlike any I've ever felt before. That offer softened her attitude immediately, but she said she had to think about what she wanted. For the next four days, we had some off and on discussions. It was very clear that she was very hurt and very angry -- and for good reason, after the way I'd treated her. I took complete responsibility and apologized for things I quickly started to see as my own defects. But by the end of four days, she said she couldn't change her decision. She said that she still loves me ("and that won't change," she said), but she said that she had lost the ability to trust me -- and she didn't believe she could ever get that back.
In her initial e-mail ending things, she had said that she understood that we couldn't be friends if we weren't going to marry, because it would be too hurtful for us. (We had previously discussed how we both knew we would have to either marry or go our separate ways.) But we started a complicated series of push/pull actions that have continued in the seven or eight weeks since then. I have openly pursued her. At times, I've tried to break off contact, telling her that I COULDN'T be "just her friend." When I did that, she wouldn't respect that boundary, continuing to write and send various things begging me to be her friend. After my second serious attempt to break off contact with her (and her continued pursuit), I couldn't take it anymore. I gave in and said that she could call if she still wanted to. I missed her badly, and I told her that I wanted my best friend back. For a couple of days, we had e-mail contact back, and we had one half-hour phone conversation (which seems awkward and uncomfortable from my end, but which she says she enjoyed very much and wants more of).
After the phone conversation seemed so non-connected to me (in the emotional sense), I pulled away, but I didn't even explain this time. I just quit responding to her mail and quit answering her calls. That's been four days. Today, she wrote and asked me why I wasn't responding to her. Her e-mail is full of a lot of guilt about hurting me, but she makes it very clear that she wants me in her life, calling me her best friend and talking about how much she cares about me. In the meantime, she has been dating that man who she said two months ago that she was falling in love with. I have reason to believe (based on discussions with a mutual friend) that the guy is unsuited to her, but she claims that things are "getting serious." In the meantime, she has sent me very, very, VERY mixed signals. There was even one time when I asked her (on a whim) for a date to a movie that opens in May (which we had talked about seeing together). Her response: "Ask me again near the middle to end of April." I could give other examples of her mixed signals, but that's the one that stands out the most.
So for two months, I've been pursuing her at times and pulling away at times. During that period, she has been pulling away at times and pursuing me (at least for friendship) at other times. From all the reading I've done in the past couple of weeks, I know that this is a common pattern with a narcissistic/borderline couple. I haven't mentioned any of my psychological discoveries about ourselves to her, because she doesn't want to see herself as having more problems that need to be dealt with. She seems to think that her counseling last year took care of her childhood issues, for the most part, and I'm quite certain that nobody has ever suggested BPD to her. (I'm not taking the time to list all of the symptoms that she displays that match BPD, but there are plenty, although certainly not the ones which involve suicide or self-inflicted injuries. She just works herself WAY too hard -- for the children where she teaches, not for herself -- and ends up doing damage to herself that way.)
I'm leaving out many, many, MANY of the details, but I hope I've given you enough to have any idea about what the situation is. My questions relate to what I can and should do at this point:
-- Should I try to talk with her about the discoveries I've made about WHY she and I did some of the things we did in relation to one another?
-- Is it reasonable to think that she will probably be pulled back toward me, even though she's dating someone else? (My therapist thinks the new guy is more of a distraction for her, more than the serious relationship she claims it is.)
-- Obviously, I'm going to be working on my own issues with my therapist. Equally obvious is that I wouldn't proceed with a relationship with her (when and if she comes back) without good counseling. Is there anything I can do about that in the meantime?
-- Would I be smarter to try to maintain SOME kind of friendship with her now OR to withdraw from her life until she wants to return to me in some way?
I would appreciate any help or guidance anyone can give.
ConfusedOne
I have an unusual situation which might be a bit more typical for those who've experienced BPD. I really need help repairing a relationship if it's even possible.
I have had an on-again, off-again relationship with a woman who my therapist believes suffers from borderline personality disorder. She mostly fits the description of the "obsessive-compulsive borderline" in Joan Lachkar's book, "The Narcissistic/Borderline Couple." My therapist believes that I suffer from a mild case of narcissistic personality disorder. In the same book, I fit the profile of the "depressive narcissist," not the types of narcissists that most of us think about who don't care at all about others, etc. (One web site I've found describes my type as suffering from "compensatory narcissistic personality disorder," as separate from NPD.)
After almost getting married last summer (which I broke off a month before the wedding, but only days after agreeing to it), we had a rather undefined relationship for about six months. She continued to pursue me and want me as her boyfriend (and husband), but I was non-committal. It was always, "Well, we'll see." We live in different cities, and I refused to visit her during that period. We continued to talk on the phone for at least an hour a day, mostly more. We talked about our possible future together, but she was the one who pushed it more heavily. She was constantly telling me how much she loved me and wanted me, and the tone and content of our conversation was "boyfriend/girlfriend" in every way other than my stubborn refusal to call it that. I kept thinking that everything would eventually feel right to me and that we would then be on our way to getting married. (I even bought a ring for her last fall, without her knowing it.) She used to tell me constantly that if I would just show up and ask, she would marry me immediately.
About two months ago, she sent me e-mail suddenly and without warning to say that she no longer wanted to marry me -- and that she had fallen in love with someone else. Up until the day before, she was still telling me how much she loved me. I was devastated. I immediately realized that I had no one to blame but myself, of course, but I didn't understand WHY I had let this situation develop. Within about 36 hours of her e-mail telling me that it was over, I wrote a long letter telling her that I had been completely wrong -- and I that I was now ready to commit to her immediately. I was willing to marry her immediately if that's what she wanted. I just didn't want to lose her, because I loved her and felt a connection to her unlike any I've ever felt before. That offer softened her attitude immediately, but she said she had to think about what she wanted. For the next four days, we had some off and on discussions. It was very clear that she was very hurt and very angry -- and for good reason, after the way I'd treated her. I took complete responsibility and apologized for things I quickly started to see as my own defects. But by the end of four days, she said she couldn't change her decision. She said that she still loves me ("and that won't change," she said), but she said that she had lost the ability to trust me -- and she didn't believe she could ever get that back.
In her initial e-mail ending things, she had said that she understood that we couldn't be friends if we weren't going to marry, because it would be too hurtful for us. (We had previously discussed how we both knew we would have to either marry or go our separate ways.) But we started a complicated series of push/pull actions that have continued in the seven or eight weeks since then. I have openly pursued her. At times, I've tried to break off contact, telling her that I COULDN'T be "just her friend." When I did that, she wouldn't respect that boundary, continuing to write and send various things begging me to be her friend. After my second serious attempt to break off contact with her (and her continued pursuit), I couldn't take it anymore. I gave in and said that she could call if she still wanted to. I missed her badly, and I told her that I wanted my best friend back. For a couple of days, we had e-mail contact back, and we had one half-hour phone conversation (which seems awkward and uncomfortable from my end, but which she says she enjoyed very much and wants more of).
After the phone conversation seemed so non-connected to me (in the emotional sense), I pulled away, but I didn't even explain this time. I just quit responding to her mail and quit answering her calls. That's been four days. Today, she wrote and asked me why I wasn't responding to her. Her e-mail is full of a lot of guilt about hurting me, but she makes it very clear that she wants me in her life, calling me her best friend and talking about how much she cares about me. In the meantime, she has been dating that man who she said two months ago that she was falling in love with. I have reason to believe (based on discussions with a mutual friend) that the guy is unsuited to her, but she claims that things are "getting serious." In the meantime, she has sent me very, very, VERY mixed signals. There was even one time when I asked her (on a whim) for a date to a movie that opens in May (which we had talked about seeing together). Her response: "Ask me again near the middle to end of April." I could give other examples of her mixed signals, but that's the one that stands out the most.
So for two months, I've been pursuing her at times and pulling away at times. During that period, she has been pulling away at times and pursuing me (at least for friendship) at other times. From all the reading I've done in the past couple of weeks, I know that this is a common pattern with a narcissistic/borderline couple. I haven't mentioned any of my psychological discoveries about ourselves to her, because she doesn't want to see herself as having more problems that need to be dealt with. She seems to think that her counseling last year took care of her childhood issues, for the most part, and I'm quite certain that nobody has ever suggested BPD to her. (I'm not taking the time to list all of the symptoms that she displays that match BPD, but there are plenty, although certainly not the ones which involve suicide or self-inflicted injuries. She just works herself WAY too hard -- for the children where she teaches, not for herself -- and ends up doing damage to herself that way.)
I'm leaving out many, many, MANY of the details, but I hope I've given you enough to have any idea about what the situation is. My questions relate to what I can and should do at this point:
-- Should I try to talk with her about the discoveries I've made about WHY she and I did some of the things we did in relation to one another?
-- Is it reasonable to think that she will probably be pulled back toward me, even though she's dating someone else? (My therapist thinks the new guy is more of a distraction for her, more than the serious relationship she claims it is.)
-- Obviously, I'm going to be working on my own issues with my therapist. Equally obvious is that I wouldn't proceed with a relationship with her (when and if she comes back) without good counseling. Is there anything I can do about that in the meantime?
-- Would I be smarter to try to maintain SOME kind of friendship with her now OR to withdraw from her life until she wants to return to me in some way?
I would appreciate any help or guidance anyone can give.
ConfusedOne
