DBT not working?

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angelwildchick	DBT not working?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 9 (02/08/08 02:38:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Okay. So I am told that DBT is my ONLY option for treatment. I am forced to go by various people. I am refused any treatment if I do not go. I have gone for about 6 months. And it does nothing for me. All the "skills" are ones that I posses. They just don't work for me. It's not that I don't get it, or know how to use them. It's just that I've used them so much before all this, that they no longer work. (How else do you think I made it this far?) Or they are just plain stupid. I find the whole thing degrading and incredibly stupid. My Pdoc and therapist both go on about how I'm not "getting it" and I need to "practice more." Every time I say it's not doing anything for me. You can't make something useless useful. I INSIST that the DBT is NOT for me. They go on about how "EVERY borderline says that and it works." They tell me that I need to go through the course at least 2 times before I can say anything about it. DBT cannot possibly have a 100% success rate. There is only a small % of BPDs who are actually considered "cured." Why the hell won't anyone listen to me when I say it's not working for me? Going more is not the solution. If there hasn't been anything useful for me in the first 6 months. I doubt there will be in the next however long it is that I go. And the mindfulness? That is possibly the dumbest thing I have ever encountered. "Oh. Lets let the borderline play with a shiny ball in the corner, so they forget about being suicidal." Do not patronize me. I am seriously doubting that I am even borderline. And of course once I say this the PDoc and therapist say "Well every borderline says that." So what if someone is really misdiagnosed and stuck doing DBT? What the hell do they do then? No one will hear them because "all borderlines say they don't belong here." I'm about ready to go shove this DBT thing up someones ass. And I'm sick of people telling me I need to use my "skills." Go skill yourself.
horsebdsu	Re: DBT not working?	#1	[-]
Posts: 1370 (02/09/08 21:35:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Here's an idea. Stop going. No one is forcing you to have treatment. You can go without any treatment. I feel pretty insulted that you are calling something I find helpful "degrading", "incredibly stupid", and "patronizing." I have a post-graduate degree and don't consider myself an incredibly stupid person. DBT probably isn't for you, but please don't insult other people who do find it helpful.
angelwildchick	Re: DBT not working?	#2	[-]
Posts: 9 (02/10/08 00:12:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I said that I find it stupid, patronizing, and degrading. That's the way I feel towards it. I did not insult anyone who does find it helpful. Just because I don't like and agree with the things you do, doesn't mean I am insulting YOU.
angelwildchick	Re: DBT not working?	#3	[-]
Posts: 9 (02/10/08 00:14:56) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	And as you can see. I am very frustrated with the fact that DBT is not for me and I am not offered any other treatment plan. I can not go without treatment, but obviously DBT does not work for me.
Wisdom19572003	Re: DBT not working?	#4	[-]
Posts: 3896 (02/10/08 03:09:29) Registered User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think about the only contribution I can make at this point is that IMO I think you are more than capable of working a DBT program and being successful with it. I think you are far too caught up into the diagnosis and the stigma that when the real treatment comes along that you do nothing but kick and scream. Your giving it too much thought. If your suffering with this illness then seek and accept treatment. Otherwise exercise your right to say no and move on. I won't try to convince you if DBT works or not. I don't think that's the real issue here. I think the issue is that your hell bend on complaining about a program of which you haven't really learned and fully lived. You'll find some people are offended. With good reason....they're working towards wellness. I think alot of it has to do with attitude. DBT uses "Insight Mindfulness" from India. How can that be stupid or non useful? Most ppl without bpd also use dbt w/o ever having learned the program....... human skills. Can't force anyone to learn those. I won't say "use your skills". I don't think that's what you want to hear. There are no magic cures out there. So waiting for one (cure) will put you last in line for what you have now. If your scared and angry say that......... Share that with your therapist. Work on acceptance and compassion. But don't push a good opportunity away at the expense of your stubbornness. You'll never know when it will go by again. Look beyond your nose. Wisdom ***"I CRIED BECAUSE I HAD NO SHOES. THEN I MET A MAN WHO HAD NO FEET."***
angelwildchick	Re: DBT not working?	#5	[-]
Posts: 9 (02/10/08 04:25:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've gone to this program long enough to know what's going on. I am not stubborn, scared or resisting the treatment, I go in with a very positive attitude. I am just very frustrated with the fact that it has not improved or helped me in anyway. I have not found anything helpful in it. This frustrates me greatly because that is my only treatment option. I want to get better. In fact they say I "do well" in the group. But it has not made my life better in any way or form. The first thing they want to do is reduce suicidal ideation. I still want to kill myself. I am about to move out on my own and they told me I need "skills" that will help me so I don't kill myself. There are none that work/help me in this regard. I am probably going to kill myself. Hence why I am upset. And I seriously doubt that I will be coming on here again. I came on looking for support, or at least someone who understands. But I just get insulted land told that I'm not doing it right or not trying hard enough. I give 100% to that group and I have not gotten any results. I am very frustrated with it. Which leads me to believe that I'm either not borderline or that DBT isn't for me.(Which apparently it HAS to be.) Apparently no one understands what I am going through. Perhaps I am just the one in ten who ends up dead. Be glad knowing you pushed me over the edge. Apparently no one here has ever met a borderline.
littlebird 420	Re: DBT not working?	#6	[-]
Posts: 2635 (02/10/08 05:08:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It could be that you're just not in the right time and place yet. If going to the therapy is useful in any way, you get to meet and vent with people perhaps, or maybe it is useful that you can have frequent contact with the counselors. I would say continue to go rather than have no treatment. It's not harming you (I hope). Sometimes its good to keep a foot in the door in order to get opportunities for other treatments. Maybe you can help teach the program to new people who are struggling. I have been in therapy for a long time and I still think about si and suicide daily. But I have made progress in other areas of my life. Most of the time I can't see my progress, I need someone to point it out to me. Just a borderline thing I guess Maybe getting your T's input on progress that you have made will fill your batteries so you can carry on. I plan to make a list the next time I remember to ask my T. That way I can read it and hopefully keep myself afloat a little easier in the future. Good luck, stay safe. ~littlebird~ "Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent." -- H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama. "Never let the 'ends,' the ideal, the revolutionary state, compromise your ethical judgment or the 'means' of how you achieve it." -- Albert Camus.
horsebdsu	Re: DBT not working?	#7	[-]
Posts: 1370 (02/10/08 15:38:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Perhaps you should check yourself into the hospital if you are feeling this suicidal. Maybe they can find the right treatment program for you. Good luck.
angelwildchick	Re: DBT not working?	#8	[-]
Posts: 9 (02/10/08 17:17:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've been in the hospital before. MANY times. Going to the hospital is like being a frequent flier at McDeaths. I stand in line and they look like they want to put on a paper hat and ask me if I'd like to supersize my crazy. I am told my ONLY option is DBT. (which I have said many times already.) All they do at the hospital is let me stay one night, then send me home the next day, regardless if I am suicidal or not. And tell me to go to DBT. THAT IS IT. It doesn't help, or do anything so there is no point in going. So basically I'm screwed, no matter what I do.
scrip49	Re: DBT not working?	#9	[-]
Posts: 342 (02/10/08 19:17:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Please retract the emotional blackmail. No one here has pushed you over the edge to suicide. That ultimately is your own choice. As to no one here ever coming face to face with a borderline, we all do it every day. We get up and look in the mirror. Most of us either deal with suicidal ideation periodically or on a daily basis. Don't cut your nose off despite your face just because you've arrived on a chat board that can support you AND tell you to cut the manipulative crap out. We don't have a magic bullet. Bpd can't be dealt with quickly or easily. We struggle, you are struggling. It takes time and effort lots of both and even then the results vary widely. Keep trying. There is no real alternative
april15	Re: DBT not working?	#10	[-]
Posts: 1121 (02/10/08 23:33:18) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Six months is not long enough to decide DBT doesn't work. The skills take lots of practice and it takes time. Mindfulness is not sitting in a corner playing with a shiny ball, it is an exercise in being in the present moment, which is a very important part of emotion regulation. If, during a mindfulness exercise, you are sitting in a corner thinking "this is stupid", that isn't being mindful at all, it's being judgmental. I strongly believe that regular talk therapy doesn't work without the DBT skills. Therapy alone is useless with someone who is self injuring and suicidal. First, the emotional dysregulation has to be under control. It's like a foundation. I encourage you to stick with it, give it more time.
Kielee26	hello	#11	[-]
Posts: 3 (02/24/08 23:55:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I understand Angel.. I do. Trust me..
kaliuga.openbpd		#12	[-]
Posts: 2 (08/07/08 06:22:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I hope you are still out there...because I can relate!! It sounds like you are/were in a program similar to what I attended. I tried, but what used to infuriate me was the tone. They treated us as if we were 2 years old, and yes, it was very insulting. I'm not two...I'm a grown woman. DBT does help! What does not help is when the people teaching the skills give the impression that they are "normal" and "you are not"! I think it sucks that you now have a "knee-jerk" reaction to DBT. There is more than one way to skin a disorder! My philosophy is throw the whole kitchen sink at it. What matters is that it is useful for you. I think it is very patronizing when they throw around "it's you". I personally respond best when people show the human side of themselves when treating people. People who "treat" that put themselves on a "higher" plane than the patient are going to lose. They are not perfect, and they are certainly not gurus. They are human. As soon as they learn to treat people from a more "I'm human, too" perspective, they will gain the RESPECT or TRUST of their patients. I think DBT is great, but there are other books, programs, ect. out there that can help. Like some suggest here - give DBT a break, and find something else to work on (and maybe, just maybe - later you can see the value despite the negative association - don't let THEM ruin a good thing for you! Take from it what you can, and use other things as well) such as focusing on what is good for you - be it a hobby, your health, or another program. I still cannot stand the program I was in, and it did very little for me. I got to know very quickly who really cared vs. who was using me as part of "schooling", and who was just there to collect a paycheck. Honey vs. Vinegar. Or should I say Chocolate?
stmnstff101		#13	[-]
Posts: 10 (08/25/08 08:12:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	hi angel, im not going to agree or disagree with anyone, but i can see where u r coming from, as i also do the dbt skills group i have nearly finished my year of it, i have done many therapies before but dbt has been helpfull to a certain degree but it hasnt cured me, i think u should stick with it for a year and see what happens, then maybe ur therapist will consider other courses of action, i am on meds aswell and they have saved my life, hope ur ok steph
horsebdsu		#14	[-]
Posts: 1246 (08/26/08 20:46:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think it is a good point that DBT is not a cure. But maybe the hammer in the toolbelt of things borderlines can use to survive.
sybil		#15	[-]
Posts: 16 (01/21/09 08:36:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	my post got lost darn it. I was just going ot ask if anyone here can say if the dbt has helped them - how? I realized you all have your own problems here, but I, like Angel, do not see how DBT will help me. I'm sorry if anyone feels offended, I see some do, but its not to say YOU must be stupid to accept the treatment and we're somehow superior, its to say that YOU have had a different experience in life perhaps, or some other path that got you there. Or maybe it is all relative. I was only recently diagnosed so its not a complaint on the treatment itself, but more curiosity what i can hope for. I know its not curable really. I hear all this about skills, and I know I have the skills ot differentiate my mental issues from reality and cope. I do it all the time, I've never even been admitted to a hospital for any attempts or anything, I know how to keep any mistakes I make under control, my habits everything. But I'm still miserable and prefer to be dead than alive in a world where I need to monitor myself ot pass for human. That is not a manipulative threat, its not anything but logical to me. So being as i've looked for an answer for a few hours now and there is no where i have found yet that is anymore direct than this thread, can anyone say what it HAS done for them please? If DBT can make all the suicidal thoughts and stuff go away hell I'll try it for 5 rounds, but I am reading Linehan's book and all the logic and discoveries she writes about so far I had deduced for myself by middle school and had made rules in my mind and all sorts of stuff ot cope with these things fro mthe age of 8-9. My father is typical BPD and I'm sure every lesson I've ever learned from him was actually a defense mechanism he had built up himself. So in short, post docs, whatever education and achievement any of you have, its not that its a personal attack on YOUR treatment, its just that coming from a VERY controlled BPD childhood and being a completely anal person now, I'm pretty freakin' certain that some skills won't do it for me. Those skills are what kept me from ending it this far, and I know I can keep using them for enternity and cope too that's not a problem. I can say with 100% certainty I don't need treatment and can live a healthy life, have friends, have a family blablabla, i can. But its just that I have all that now, and I'd still just rather die cause none of it feels mine. None of it is cured, its all just a bunch of skills i use to make it work out for myself in the end just in case i don't die. It was a deal I consciously made in middle school that no matter what I have ot hold together a stable option in case I do live ... but ever since, I hope and wish and pray that someone or something take me out of my misery or resolve the issues. I work tirelessly to resolve my problems while holding together a functional life so i have a foundation IF i get a cure. WE are dedicated just like you. But from a different situation so its harder to see the light maybe. In my life, the light is all around me, I see it, I still freakin' can't feel it though... does that make sense? sorry to take so long, but I just really think everyone got ahead of themselves here and the post could be much more useful to just put our differences aside and answer the question. As a bystander i'm saying it can be that much more useful cause i would have used the information.
sybil		#16	[-]
Posts: 17 (01/21/09 08:41:53) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	oh that was a stupid post...i found my thread...thanks anyway everyone. and hopefully those people that were originally offended got over it, its really not an insult.
gypsy		#17	[-]
Posts: 592 (01/21/09 17:20:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Dear sybil, I dont know if youre still out there.. but I have had 14yrs of psychotherapy with dbt/cbt thrown in (unknowingly throughout the process) and found all 3 to be useful. I dont think just dbt on its own is the answer personally but it is another tool in the toolkit. If though youve read Marshas book and feel youve already grasped/mastered her techniques then all well and good. Perhaps youd like to give psychotherapy a try? Ive found it totally lifechanging and invaluable. Ive gone from a complete mess, no self esteem, continually suicidal, feeling and causing chaos all around, making bad choices in life and relationships, major depressive episodes, panic attacks.. and the list goes on and on. I was very unwell. I am now pretty well adjusted, my self esteem is rising, my identity is forming for the first time ever, Im not suicidal which is a fantastic feeling, Im in a healthy 5yr relationship, in a part-time job, and Im growing and learning all the time with my weekly therapy. so... maybe if you feel youve already been there and done that with dbt, why not psychotherapy? I found it gets to real deep underlying issues that cause that big hole in your heart, that aching pain, the severe emotional pain... just a thought anyways... not trying to push anything, just saying it worked for me gypsy "The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." Marcel Proust
sybil	Thanks anyway	#18	[-]
Posts: 37 (02/10/09 12:40:52) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	gypsy wrote: Dear sybil, I dont know if youre still out there.. but I have had 14yrs of psychotherapy with dbt/cbt thrown in (unknowingly throughout the process) and found all 3 to be useful. I dont think just dbt on its own is the answer personally but it is another tool in the toolkit. If though youve read Marshas book and feel youve already grasped/mastered her techniques then all well and good. Perhaps youd like to give psychotherapy a try? Ive found it totally lifechanging and invaluable. Ive gone from a complete mess, no self esteem, continually suicidal, feeling and causing chaos all around, making bad choices in life and relationships, major depressive episodes, panic attacks.. and the list goes on and on. I was very unwell. I am now pretty well adjusted, my self esteem is rising, my identity is forming for the first time ever, Im not suicidal which is a fantastic feeling, Im in a healthy 5yr relationship, in a part-time job, and Im growing and learning all the time with my weekly therapy. so... maybe if you feel youve already been there and done that with dbt, why not psychotherapy? I found it gets to real deep underlying issues that cause that big hole in your heart, that aching pain, the severe emotional pain... just a thought anyways... not trying to push anything, just saying it worked for me gypsy Hey Thanks for the tips...I'm actually quite sick of tools I have too many, I want something that takes all the tools and replaces them with normalcy...uggggh...i know not possible. Am in psychotherapy now too...not that different to talking... i dunno...ah well. Thanks anyway.
yoyogirl1957		#19	[-]
Posts: 136 (02/11/09 04:00:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It's taken me 2 years of weekly therapy and practicing dbt/cognitive reprogramming skills and I am finally getting it so I hope you too hang in there with it. It takes a lot of practice time to change old ways of ineffective thinking/behavior. The old thinking sees futility in everything and works on the basis of negative self-prophecy. One of my biggest dbt skill hurdles has been non-judging. When I started making some real headway in not judging who was doing what, choosing the radical acceptance skill and focuising entirely on the mindfulness skill ("keeping my own side of the street clean"), life got a lot easier...whew! suddenly peace of mind replaced all those intense emotions - based on my misperceptions or judging - that drove people away from me. I hope you give yourself the gift patience and persistence. Eventually what your therapist says to you and the dbt skills will click and your mood will lighten even though you still have problems to solve. ((((hugs)))) to you!
scrip50		#20	[-]
Posts: 239 (02/11/09 05:51:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	DBT was useful in retraining myself to use mindfulness and be teflon coated (recognise what is not my issue and let it slide off me). I dispute your assertion that there is no cure. Have you read "get me out of here". I believe as more people have their symptoms recognised earlier and treatment becomes more specific to BPD there will be more people who make it from recovery to cure. A study done here has shown up to 70% of people who engage in psychotherapy in particular re-parenting for more than two years achieve recovery. I too can tend to intellectualise things. I found with CBT I was already using the skills taught. DBT was used to try and manage self injury and it is useful in that regard not so useful to me with disordered eating. Eight years of one to one psychtherapy is why I am alive and functioning. And in active recovery a lot of the time. I do not meet the diagnostic criteria for BPD at present. I still use talk therapy with a psychiatrist and a psychologist, one every one to two weeks and one every four weeks. More to the point I am much more confident about who I am. I am not getting only symptom relief I am content, connected and happy a lot of the time.

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